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Talk:Salviatia
(1) Salviatia, while a major warring power, is always in dire need of oil and gas : the North Sea offshore oil are out of its reach (too close to Great Britain, and right in the way of Vidalia's Far Expeditions Fleet way to the Atlantic), and the Reich has to rely on the rich deposits of Northern Africa. Unfortunately, this is the least well-controlled part of its territory, and is under continuous pressure from Jihadia to the east, that wishes to liberate ths muslim lands from heathen oppression, and from Berber raiders to the south, attacking in the name of King James Bananius. As a result, Salviatia has : - been trying to master synthetic crude production - established a trade route with the Bolivarian Republic, who wishes to export some of its own national production. It is one of the few missions of the Salviatische Kriegsmarine to secure this route, thanks to its base in the Canary Islands. Alternatively, convoys can choose to use the "Southern Route", to South Africa, where the Reich owns a naval base, but the main issue remains : how to deliver this oil all the way up to Salviatia's mainland in this hostile Atlantic Ocean, escaping both Federal patrols and Vidalian expeditions ? Returning to the gameplay, this situation could result in the player facing such a choice : - 1 : Relying only on North African energy, and fortifying them heavily. '''Pros : no stretched trade route to manage, only one tiny sea to cross. Cons : Limited ressources, valuable troops immobilized in the desert when they could be rolling over Vidalia or conquering Greenland. - 2 : '''Trying to take control of the North Sea offshore oil deposits. '''Pros : another source of energy close to the mainland, double oil income. Cons : a highly-exposed position, both to Federal and Vidalian attacks, a seaborne endeavour, forcing the Kriegsmarine to take on two formidable foes. Maybe you would even have to try and invade Great Britain in order for this solution to be viable. - 3 : '''Achieving synthetic crude facilities. Pros : at last the ability to produce oil on the mainland, far away from any military threat. Cons : a very expensive technology, that will take away scientific assets from military research, a poor productivity, the risk to trigger massive strategic bombings by the Federal Air Force. This solution would require a very strong air defense system. - 4 : Buy Bolivarian Oil and carry it across the North Atlantic Ocean. Pros ''': no need to worry about extracting and refining oil, huge quantities available. Cons : relying on a foreign power, having to secure the way for the Bolivarian tankers all across the Atlantic. This decision would force Salviatia to develop a strong Kriegsmarine and become a major naval power in the Atlantic, a challenge the Reich has never completed yet. - 4B : '''But Bolivarian Oil and carry it to South Africa. '''Pros : same as above, plus, a secure trade route, with very little risks of the convoys being attacked. Cons : you still have to take care yourself of carrying this oil back to the mainland. That could be achieved in two ways : by land through Africa, thus requiring active diplomacy with the Transsahelian Kingdom ; or by sea, forcing you either to secure the entire African coast (including Vidalian-controlled Angola and the naval base of Port-Svoboda), or to go for the original solution, and develop a submarine tanker, which I find a really super cool concept. - Col Molotov ''Answer: t'hey have no choice but to side with the Federation. '''After all, the Federation and Salviatia seem to share a variety of goals - eliminating Vidalia, and pacifying Africa - the Federation may believe in "exporting" democracy, but some leaders at the top realise that it is more rational to cooperate with one another (this was what America and Germany actually did and might have continued doing were it not for Pearl Harbor IRL). The Federation is currently in an alliance with Salviatia and the Empire, because they realise that as much as they hate each others' guts, the potential of Vidalia, Jihadia or Trans-Sahelia upsetting their other plans does not bode well. But have one faction harm another's, such as the Federation declare war on Bolivaria, or on Trans-Sahelia, which is allied with the Empire out of its sheer hatred of "muzungus" or whites, and you have a huge war on your hands. ''So t'he Federation's main goal is "Vidalia first, Salviatia next.": Vidalia, and its cronies the SAO and Bolivaria pose bigger threats to the Federation, because of their erratic behaviour: what if OGRE and the Council woke up one morning to find out that Vidalia is present on both their Caribbean and Pacific seaboards? moreover, Vidalia's philosophy is a greater threat to the Federation than that of Salviatia's. The CtW is basically "screw your ally as much as you can before time's up", although the Federation may first declare war because of Bolivaria's location. Still, the ability to neutralise the massive weight of the Federal war machine by diverting its attention against Vidalia to secure the Atlantic is good. I will be looking into that when I start writing more here. I had figured a long time Salviatia would want to be pally with both the Bolivarians and the Federation, but only insofar that they have some races which are free of miscegenation; I know one dude of Germano-Bohemian descent on RuneScape....'' ''To wage war across the Atlantic is a risky proposal for both factions, especially if there are other people around.' On one hand, the Federation views the Salviatists as potentially dangerous militarists, while the Salviatists, unhappy how they were tricked by the America-born Jew Oppenheimer into war with Jihadia and Vidalia, will see them as grasping Jews intent on buying up or owning the whole planet. But there is an even bigger threat, and that is Vidalia, and the fear that somehow, either Jihadia or Vidalia will wage a war against them. The Salviatists have convinced the South Africans to lease a base to them; they also have the Muslim Ajamids of Morocco (now in control of some Italian islands and the wasteland part of Spain; the capital of the cantonment there is Barcelona) in an effort to "stabilise" the region but even so, puppet states can only go so far. Beelim 06:46, April 30, 2012 (UTC) I think there are too many alliances in your design. In A Wrong Turn, there should be a state of war between every country in the world. The best you can find is a relative standstill, as it exists between the Empire and Vidalia, or Salviatia and Jihadia, but even then, when soldiers or sailors stumble upon each other, they reach for their weapons. The only two countries for which I can't think of a reason to fight are the Bolivarian Republic and the Horde, for they really don't have any territorial issues or conflicting claims. The way we designed it, there are some issues that, on the other hand, appear unsolvable by negociation : - Control of Groenland and North Atlantic, leading to an endless war between Salviatia, the Federation and Vidalia. - Navigation routes through South Atlantic Ocean, making the Federal, the Bolivarian and the Transsahelian navy battle permanently - not to mention Salviatian U-Boots from The Cape. - The Salviatian-Vidalian border : maybe the most devastated and war-torn areas of the world ! - Tunisia and Libya : Salviatia claims them for their oil and gas, Jihadia as muslim land, the Transsahelian Kingdom as a part of Africa. - All the coasts of Africa : the colonies and puppet states there have no determined border, and constitute an issue between their owner and the Transsahelian Kingdom. Also, some colonial areas are adjacent to each other, and co-habitation is difficult, especially in the south between the Vidalist Republic of Angola, Salviatian South Africa and the Rising Sun's implantation in Mozambique and Madagascar. - Caucasus : Owned and firmly held by Vidalia, Jihadia claims at as a muslim land, but the Workers' Republic cannot afford to lose it oil deposits. - Siberia : I already wrote about that in the forum - it has become a huge playground for spies and agents from all over the world, as Vidalian and Imperial agents try to turn the Horde against each other while keeping them weak, Federal and Salviatian spies give them weapons and push them to unite and go to war. At the same time, though, they fight each other : Salviatia wants to turn the Horde against Vidalia, the Federation wants to turn it against the Rising Sun. And both want the mongol warrios to buy their weapons ! On top of that, Jihadia tries to revive the once-strong muslim identity of southern Siberia and Central Asia, and the Rising Sun, buying huge quantities of oil and gas from the Horde, struggles to keep the region stable and the Transsiberian Railway open. - The Bering Strait : this is maybe the only point on which the Federation and the Empire converge : keep it closed ! Vidalia, however, deploys a great deal of efforts to keep it open, so that the Far Expeditions Fleet can pass freely in the Pacific Ocean. This is why the Strait is heavily watched, both from the Vidalian base of the Wrangel Island, the Federal base in the Aleutian Islands and the Imperial one in the northern Kurils. Mongol Pirates in the Okhotsk sea are not making the situation any better ! - The Carribean Islands : neverending battle zone between the Bolivarian Republic and the Federation, this area is alternatively the theatre of perpetual skirmishes or an all-out conflict. - South Pacific Islands and Australia : Although they were almost entirely conquered by the Rising Sun, the Federation still has a solid foothold in the region (New Zealand, Tasmania, Samoa Islands) and claims them as rightfully belonging to the Atlantic Federation. So that is the world's political situation of the world at the time A Wrong Turn takes place, and it leaves little room for anything more than cold wars between two nations, let alone actual alliances ! This is not to say that your work is scrapped, I just think we should slide it a few years backwards in the timeline. From approximately 1975 on, there should be only war. 09:03, April 30, 2012 (UTC) ::Let's update the geographic index for this mod first, before we get on with this. I have my hads full left, right and centre, but I promise that as soon as I get my first x-pack for RKC done, I will get back to compiling data. There are to be five pages, as you know, meant to be dedicated to fleshing out the atlas, but I have not found a suitable format for presenting details in it. ::Update: perhaps, instead of having each faction have 2 alliance, they can be at war with 5 other factions. The original "alliances" then won't be alliances - only a brief armistice. Salviatia will logically have to sign one with the AF and Bolivaria, everyone else are just Untermenschen or Vidalists with whom Salviatia can't see eye to eye. The Atlantic Federation may despise Salviatia, but they have plenty in common in dictating social purity and order. The CtW can then progress, with the AF capable of expecting no attacks from the Empire (because the Empire is too busy elsewhere and doesn't want a war on two fronts), and from Salviatia - because as mentioned before an inter-Atlantic war is costly. On the other hand, there is the RB and its revanchist stance towards the Atlantic Federation, and the Horde is problematic because some of its members subsist by raiding... Beelim 04:57, May 3, 2012 (UTC)